Talk:Georgia (country)

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Georgia (country) was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 21, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
March 13, 2015	Peer review	Reviewed

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 9, 2004, April 9, 2005, May 26, 2005, May 26, 2006, May 26, 2007, May 26, 2008, May 26, 2009, May 26, 2010, May 26, 2011, May 26, 2012, and May 26, 2013.

Current status: Former good article nominee

Countries

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Georgia (country) Top‑importance

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (state), Not moved, 23 November 2016, Discussion
RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (American state), Not moved, 5 January 2018, Discussion
RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (state), Not moved, 6 April 2019, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 11 July 2021, Discussion
RM, Georgia → Georgia (disambiguation), Procedural close, 17 January 2022, Discussion
RM, Georgia → Georgia (disambiguation), Speedy close, 24 April 2022, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 29 September 2023, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Republic of Georgia, Not moved, 10 April 2024, Discussion

Older discussions:

RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Opposed, 2003
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Opposed, 6 May 2004, Discussion (Poll)
RM, Georgia (country) → Republic of Georgia, Opposed, 23 May 2005, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 5 July 2006, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 11 July 2007, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 15 March 2008, Discussion
RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 19 August 2013, Discussion
RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia, U.S., Withdrawn, 24 July 2014, Discussion

The "Georgia" move discussions in a nutshell:

On Wikipedia, the placing of a word in parentheses in the title of an article is primarily used as a method of disambiguation, with the parenthesised word usually being a set that the article's subject is a part of.
The basic debate has been whether the Eurasian country should be the primary topic, and therefore does not need any parenthesised word in the title. Those in favor of such a move often argue that internationally recognised countries should take precedence over sub-national units like the U.S. state, though there are other suggested reasons for primary topic. Some proponents of a move have also argued that the current failure to recognize Georgia (the country) as the primary topic displays a U.S.-centric bias.
Opponents of such a renaming note that under Wikipedia's guidelines, the primary topic can be determined based on which one is significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings as well as which one is more important or significant. They generally dispute that the U.S. state of Georgia is any less important; in fact, given the significantly greater size of its population, economy (especially its film industry), geographical area, and main airport, many argue the U.S. state is actually more important despite sharing some of its sovereignty with the United States federal government and not having a seat in the United Nations. They have also argued in the past that since the Eurasian country was (at the time of the above linked discussions) being actually slightly less searched for than the U.S. state, the former should not be the primary topic. Based on all of the foregoing factors, some contend the U.S. state should be the primary topic with no qualifier in its title. Some opponents have also argued that having Georgia as a disambiguation page is a better way to catch cases where an article contains wikilinks to the bare name "Georgia" that should be disambiguated.

Violent demonstrations in Tiflis since 11/28/2024

Missing topic in article 2001:9E8:34E3:BF00:2CB8:A6B1:3B74:2317 (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:NOTNEWS, an article isn't a journal of the week's news. Some editor would have to feel that these demonstrations are key to a general article about the country, and that probably can't be established until a while afterwards so that it can be seen whether, in retrospect, those demonstrations played a prominent role in shaping the face of the country. Largoplazo (talk) 16:58, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Georgia reached its Golden Age during the High Middle Ages under the reigns of King David IV and Queen Tamar.

Change Queen to King 212.58.120.37 (talk) 11:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Why would we call the queen a king? Largoplazo (talk) 13:26, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because in Georgian language we have called her and will always call her King. You can check any Georgian source.

thanks in advance 91.151.136.145 (talk) 18:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that she's called "king" in Georgian. Presumably you mean she's referred to by the word that usually translates to the English word "king". However, this is English Wikipedia and in English a woman who is the monarch of a country is a queen. Largoplazo (talk) 20:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamar Mepe (თამარ მეფე) is the Georgian name, which is King Tamar. So the IP user is correct. However, calling her Queen Tamar is also correct and the generally used name in English. Labrang (talk) 23:24, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamar Mefe means King Tamar, stop talking about what you don't know. Zlad! (talk) 00:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, this is English Wikipedia. The article is in English, not Georgian. I am a native speaker of English, I know it very well, and I can tell you that in English the title of a woman who is the monarch of a country is "queen". Largoplazo (talk) 02:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a reason to change anyways, as the article on Tamar is clear in its opening sentence(s) on the fact that she is (also) called King Tamar via the non-genderized word. So there's really no need to change it here. Labrang (talk) 08:25, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't doubt that in any language "Queen" and "King" have their own strict definitions. But the fact that a woman held so much power during that period is so unique that the monarch was given the title of King and was never referred to as a Queen (which at that time implied lesser power). It is incorrect from the outset to refer to her as a Queen (even in the article about Tamar herself) 91.151.136.145 (talk) 09:53, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That may be the case in Georgian, but the English language has a long history of using Queen to refer to people with power, and calling Tamar a King would directly mislead the vast majority of readers regarding her gender. CMD (talk) 12:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamar is predominantly a female name in various countries :) (Israel, Netherlands, United States). The reader can read further, it's a shame that a fact is written wrong 91.151.136.145 (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is correct in English. CMD (talk) 15:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"King" is exclusively a masculine title in English-speaking countries, and we shouldn't leave the reader guessing whether the femininity of "Tamar" overrides the obvious masculinity of "king".

It's a fact that in English terminology she was a queen regardless of what Georgians call her in Georgian. It's like insisting that we have to say, despite his being 1.85 cm (6'1") tall, that Nate "Tiny" Archibald was tiny because he was called "Tiny". That he was called "Tiny" is a true fact. That he was tiny is not a true fact. Largoplazo (talk) 17:04, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you've inadvertently argued against yourself: her titled name was King Tamar (when translated), she was a queen, both true facts. In other words King when referring to her name, queen when referring to her role.

89.47.236.96 (talk) 01:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, she wasn’t a queen, neither by name nor by role. She held the role of a king, thereby earning her title. You are all just throwing out nonsense facts to justify something that was wrongly established long ago. 212.58.120.37 (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In English, ruling monarchs labeled "king" and "queen" have identical roles. Do you think Elizabeth II had a different role from the one her son Charles III has? She didn't. Do you think she and he differ in the way they "earned" their titles? They don't. So when you say Tamar had the "role" of a king, that's meaningless as a distinction between her role and the role of a queen. The only distinction is that the terms are sex-distinct. Largoplazo (talk) 13:06, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please raise this on Talk:Tamar of Georgia instead. This has been mentioned before. Mellk (talk) 10:31, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mikheil Kavelashvili

ist not president of Georgia ?

Hoffmansk (talk) 12:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mikhail Kavelashvili has been elected President of Georgia by the Electoral Collage - however the Georgian Parliamentary elections produced a majority for people who are not liked by the forces who influence Wikipedia. Of course conservatives also sometimes claim that elections are rigged - for example the 2020 United States Presidential election and the last Presidential election in Brazil. So it is a matter of perspective. 2A02:C7C:E1BA:CE00:B0AE:56A2:E9C6:BB70 (talk) 11:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about "forces who influence Wikipedia" (which, obviously is speculation), it's about official recognition: Mikheil Kavelashvili is recognized only by the few countries, including occupying country and neighbors, which usually stay on recognition for a diplomatic reasons, while Salome Zurabishvili is still recognized by the most of the countries. GioMac (talk) 17:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term of office of Salome Zourabichvili has expired - this person is no longer President of Georgia.

The article lists Salome Zourabichvili as the President of Georgia - the term of office of this lady has expired, this person is no longer President of Georgia. 2A02:C7C:E1BA:CE00:B0AE:56A2:E9C6:BB70 (talk) 09:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Check what Irakli Kobakhidze said today: reiterating that [Zurabishvili's] term would end on December 29 and she would be replaced “by elected president Mikheil Kavelashvili”.

There seems to be some misunderstanding that since she was inaugurated on 16 December 2018, it should be exactly the six years (until 16 December 2024). That is not the case. The procedure is that transfer of power is when the new president is inaugurated. See also the previous presidents (see for example Giorgi Margvelashvili - he was a month beyond the exact 5 years). They don't get dismissed at exactly the 5 years, with weeks until the inauguration of the new president the speaker of parliament as placeholder. It is a standard procedure she is still the president until the 29th, regardless what one thinks of the election and the legitimacy of Kavelashvili (which is a separate discussion). So, she is still the president, fully legal. Labrang (talk) 13:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for correcting my error. 2.126.135.62 (talk) 20:51, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 January 2025

It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

– Common disambiguation. 143.179.74.165 (talk) 11:59, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: in the second proposal above, "Georgia (U. S. state)" has been changed to "Georgia (U.S. state)" because the former is a redirect. Redirects are ineligible to be current titles in move requests. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 16:04, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as neither is a common name, and "state of Georgia" can just as easily refer to the sovereign state as to the US one. Largoplazo (talk) 12:40, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close per Talk:Georgia (country)/Archive 10#Requested move 10 April 2024. Both are republics, both are states, the country isn't called the Republic of Georgia, we don't need a week on this. CMD (talk) 12:43, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and recommend speedy closure. Given the history and complexity of debate on this topic, a two-word nomination with zero supporting evidence merits no consideration. ╠╣uw [talk] 13:15, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This has been discussed a lot already, and far better proposals have been rejected. Neither of these proposed article titles is likely to be the topic a reader searches for, and so this seems a nonstarter. John (talk) 13:52, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above replies, common name for both the country and the U.S. state is "Georgia". jamacfarlane (talk) 14:10, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and recommend speedy closure for the reasons given above. --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:13, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the reasons above.--Shavtara (talk) 21:48, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and recommend a WP:SNOW WP:RMEC closure. I'd reiterate my comment from the April RM. SilverLocust 💬 09:12, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This would only create confusion as "state" does not imply "US state". JIP | Talk 11:05, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]